niime 百科

Encyclopedia of niime

〈 continued from the previous interview 〉

Sakai

Concept… Well, I think it’s better for The niime Village and the ‘tamaki niime’ brand not to be static.

—— You mean like liquid, right?

Sakai

That’s right! It’s always essential to keep the state of being unable to see a whole picture, which is like wrapped by wafer paper, being able to change to any shape.

—— I see.

Sakai

As a result of those efforts, The niime Village should have a positive influence.

—— I see.

Sakai

Rather than focusing on making ‘The niime Village Concept’, it should be natural as we live with what we like to do daily. There shouldn’t be any rules that we have to follow.

—— Vaguely.

Sakai

Yes, it is. It should be very vague. It’s like the state that seems the end of a goal or may keep going further, even if The niime Village builds up.

—— It sounds endless.

Sakai

That’s right. That sounds like more of ‘tamaki niime’. It is more flexible, free of rules, not being one-sided in both sending and receiving messages. So I think we have to have flexibility, which would make the excellent niime Village, which would make ‘The niime Village Concept’ as a result.

—— You don’t have to declare the ‘niime Village’ slogan.

Sakai

No, we don’t.

Tamaki

We make it happen gradually.

Sakai

That’s right.

—— It should be happening eventually; you don’t focus on doing that.

Tamaki

I would like to have our place where people want to come again.

—— You wish people find themselves to be members of The niime Village before they know it.

Tamaki

It’s a good thing to have changes. So I want people to want to come, be here or get excited to see something different next time because I am the one who is excited about seeing changes more than anybody else.

—— I see.

Tamaki

When I can see the goal within reach, I am not as excited individually or as a company. There’s no more fun when I can predict how the company will be in 10 years.

—— Because you can’t have fun anymore.

Sakai

Our human world seems to have start and end goals, which look more like a system. But in nature, things like rivers, there’s no rule that certain types of water have to run to a specific place. So without knowing what happens, it ends up running to the ocean, in which many things are nurtured, right?

—— Yes.

Sakai

But we cannot predict that. Our advantage is such unpredictable instability, and I hope it is reflected in The niime Village.

—— Like surfing the waves?

Sakai

That’s it! That’s it! (laugh) It looks like waiting for waves, and you don’t know when it comes…and oh! Here it comes!

—— It looks like the same wave would never come. (laugh)

Sakai

That’s right. That’s the real thrill of nature.

Tamaki

You are right. That’s what nature is.

Sakai

That’s how it is. Tamaki and I don’t like to repeat with the same waves.

Tamaki

Exactly.

Sakai

We always expect to have something like a new wave.

Tamaki

We try to get it.

Sakai

Yeah, yeah.

—— You are trying to make it happen and catch it.

Sakai

That’s right. You are right. ‘The niime Village Concept’ is one of waves.

—— In a sense, you try surfing the wave of ‘The niime Village Concept’, even though you don’t see it.

Sakai

Yes. The other day I showed our Shop & Lab’s 3D film to my friend from Tokyo. Even though I didn’t explain it beforehand, he said that Ms Tamaki owns a ‘village’ as soon as he saw it.

—— Hmm. Someone already gets it.

Sakai

It’s already started happening. The village has this rustic feel where there is nature, homes, cows, but it isn’t always like that.

Tamaki

If we keep surfing the waves to send messages, the people who are aware may come here, or people who get hooked may come surfing every day. We don’t have to be so specific…

Sakai

Right.

Tamaki

I have been telling you, right? Generally speaking, when it comes to doing business, it’s better to do it efficiently, but I am not attracted to standard business models. Because I am so different that I can’t fit within the world’s expectations. I used to feel sorry for that, though. Now I think what I insisted on doing was right. If we had gone with the logical, effective business methods while examining others’ opinions, the present ‘tamaki niime’ wouldn’t exist, and (looking around) we wouldn’t have made the ‘niime garden’, which looks like an absolute waste.

—— I know you have been doing so while accepting difficulties.

Tamaki

Yeah, we have been enjoying doing what people typically don’t. It would be hard to do if you don’t believe in what you do. So from now on, I think the people who like our ideas will gather here.

—— Even ‘weaving’, which is the base of ‘tamaki niime’, you weave with your hands manually, and on top of that, you take a lot of time to make one-item products, which is contrary to the traditional Banshu-ori business way. So I think ‘The niime Village Concept’ is an extension of that.

Tamaki

That sounds right.

—— It must be hard to explain, but you don’t want to limit to what you have manufactured so far. I wonder if people would find what they want to make by using their senses while working with you.

Sakai & Tamaki

Yeah.

—— As Mr Sakai said before if you make an exact plan, it isn’t as fun.

Sakai

Exactly.

—— It looks like it’s okay to have sheep, but it’s totally okay if you don’t have them. So instead, you can have camels.

Sakai

That’s right!

Tamaki

It’s hard to show it perfectly in the presentations as Steve Jobs did. (laugh)

—— We can try anything we want, but it doesn’t mean everything is good.

Tamaki

Yeah. How should I explain? I don’t mean that I want everyone to gather around me, so it’s hard. I want to make a community from the bottom of my heart because I want everyone to come together, but I am okay if I am not with them in their circle.

—— I think that describes you, Ms Tamaki.

Tamaki

I enjoy the process of making. For example, I would suggest they make bonfires at night, but I don’t have to be with them there at all, which may be hard for them to understand.

Sakai

Yeah.

Tamaki

But it’s going to be fun from now on. As I told you before, if I use anime terms, it’s like a mixture of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Princess Mononoke and Castle in the Sky.

Sakai

Castle in the Sky?

Tamaki

Ah, no, I was wrong. It’s Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.

Sakai

But I think Spirited Away would be interesting.

Tamaki

Yeah, that’s interesting, too…I mean all four of them. All the movies of Hayao Miyazaki are exciting. I want to use all of them.

—— I think I have more questions about The niime Village I want to ask you…

Tamaki

Please ask. Ah, I remember I talked about energy on YouTube, which may be easier for people to know what we want to do?

—— It probably helps because you didn’t talk about the details.

Tamaki

I talked about Sunlight power and small-scale hydroelectricity. The effectiveness of energy of small-scale hydroelectricity is 80%, which works the best of all. I spoke about how it would be nice if we could use it. We may do it inside of my house, not in the rivers, and want to make use of our old unused septic tank, and also wish to supply electric power with Sunlight power self-sufficiently.

—— That’s wonderful.

Tamaki

We take for granted that we have electricity.

Sakai

Yeah…

Tamaki

We also take for granted water.

Sakai

We take everything for granted.

Tamaki

That’s why we should know how to make them and be aware of that. That’s why we keep making an effort.

—— You also want to have a local currency.

Tamaki

You mean ‘niime coins’. We could start using them at the shop, and ultimately we want to use them with other systems. We would find other uses after we make them.

—— Listening to you, I realised that ‘The niime Village Concept’ is an unstructured thing.

Sakai

Yes, it is.

Tamaki

Anything is okay. Eating is essential, which is necessary, so we have to do farming mainly…but we don’t want to have goals.

Sakai

Yeah.

Tamaki

…when we can admit it’s sustainable, I think that’s our goal. I believe my mission is that our staffs’ children, the next generation, get jobs in this village.

—— Your jobs will pass on to the next generation.

Tamaki

I think our goal would be to see the cycle that people can find ways of new skills in this niime village.

—— Those skills will pass on.

Tamaki

They do. And then I could see that those children have their children and raise the next generation. The children I know from birth are still small, some are still not in elementary school yet, but when they want to work at ‘tamaki niime’, I wonder if they could find jobs that they can make the most of themselves. If we have a circulating system to help support each other in such circumstances.

—— I see.

Tamaki

Originally money is unnecessary, and salaries are not the only answer to make a living. If housing and eating don’t cost any money, we will try to do other things. In such circumstances, I think we need to do something that can help improve the community. The people who are good at speaking can speak up, and those who are good at making can make. I think people in the old days used to support each other in such ways.

—— Hmm.

Tamaki

If I had to say it, then it’s more conceptual. The point is not ‘what we should do’, but it’s ‘how it should be’, which means that we should be sensible about it, not getting it with discussion, but getting aware of it while doing it. You should be aware of your advantages, such as being good at talking or making sales, not being told by someone, but knowing yourselves and making the best of yourselves. I feel that’s a more human-like figure.

—— In a sense, you feel your role instinctively and start doing it, right?

Tamaki

In extreme terms, you can be asleep when everything is cycling well and have nothing to do. That they are working every day or working 8 hours are not a virtue. It is all right that we can do the necessary things when they are needed. Some people may want to work 20 hours, though, (laugh) each individual has personality, and there’s no need to stop working when people are crazy about the work they want to do.

Sakai

Yeah.

Tamaki

But, what is it? The rules or odd ideas that we should all be equal make people do what they are not good at.

—— They make them do it evenly.

Tamaki

People won’t develop in the same way because each one’s strengths and weaknesses are all different. It’s impossible to force them to correct.

—— In our previous interview, I could see one of the conclusions of ‘The niime Village Concept’: there’s no goal or end, but you hope to see a cycle or some form of process for the next generation. Am I right?

Tamaki

Yeah, I think one thing is that I don’t weave with looms anymore.

—— I see.

Tamaki

I think it’s crucial to whom you pass the baton, and it’s also vital that a baton passed is passed on to the next person. When people change, their ideas change, and manufacturing products will change, which is interesting.

—— Things make changes while taking over.

Tamaki

I don’t think I have to keep making. Instead, we could expand possibilities by doing with various people.

—— In that sense, even if you don’t gather here, you could participate in The niime Village.

Tamaki

Yeah, it’s possible.

—— I get the feeling for the concept.

Tamaki

It does. You don’t have to be here, but you have shared thoughts and ideas.

—— It’s the community of people who share the same intentions.

Tamaki

A former weaving team member at our company who quit his job under unavoidable circumstances recently contacted us. He wanted to use a loom at his house and take the woven cloth to Ms Tamaki. He didn’t expect to be accepted, but he was allowed to do it and brought the fabric.

—— Really?

Tamaki

So I realised we could have such a connection. As people who manufacture products, we could discuss with them, and it would be best to help us make the ones we expect. Our products have to be manufactured only here, but I feel we could make products in various places.

—— A person who is inspired by the way of ‘tamaki niime’ to start doing something may become a member of ‘niime village’.

Tamaki

That’s possible. I hope we can influence something, wishing to give someone hopes to believe oneself, “Yeah! I can do it! “.

Sakai

Yeah.

Tamaki

I would be glad if we could give them the motivation to start doing something. So we would expand opportunities and accept students to show them factory tours to let them feel and know us.

—— I see.

Tamaki

When students wonder what they should do to find jobs, they wouldn’t know the real world. If they already know there is such an exciting way of working, it would make a big difference. Their potential would be realised. If they declare this is the birthplace of Banshu-ori, all the children here should know what that is, and when they have to leave this town, I hope they go to the cities carrying that knowledge with them.

—— I see.

Tamaki

Due to diligent efforts with Fujiryu (Ryuji Fujimoto) working at the centre, we had the cotton field experience and the factory tour. I am sure the children will come to work in the future.

Sakai

Actually, we have three internships now.

Tamaki

Oh, yes! That’s why I am so thankful. You know one of our staff, Mr Hashimoto, right? I heard he came to our exhibition when we had the ‘*GAW exhibition’ in Nishiwaki a long time ago.

—— Oh, I see.


*GAW is the abbreviation of ‘Golden Town Art Waves’, a special exhibition where all the artists across the country gather and exhibit their works at the empty houses and on the street corners. It started in Shinjuku, Tokyo, and the 7th exhibition was held in Nishiwaki in summer 2010. ‘tamaki niime’ also participated as a local artist.

Tamaki

Things come and go. (laugh) When he went to the exhibition, we, even he, nobody knew he would come to work with us, but we were linked by fate. You never lose anything if you plant seeds.

—— Exactly.

Tamaki

I’ve been thinking lately that we never know what kind of luck we would have.

—— Don’t you like to have such unexpected developments?

Tamaki

Yeah.

—— It’s boring if everything goes expectedly. It’s exciting to find a new niime village aspect, “Wow! I never knew that”.

Tamaki

I would love to have opinions like “it would be interesting if we have one like that” or “I’ve never thought about it, but it must be good.” Recently we have had more ideas from our staff.

Sakai

We have them very often.

Tamaki

We have many ideas from the young staff.

—— They also give you ideas for niime village?

Tamaki

Yes. There are many opinions that they want to do this and that. They ask me if they are allowed to do whatever things in sales or manufacturing. I answer, “Yeah, sure!”

—— It must be a good idea to ask them, “what is The niime Village for you?”

Tamaki

I would ask them, “Think, please! Please give me ten ideas in one minute.” (laugh).

—— You give the readers homework.

Tamaki

There are no right and wrong answers in thinking. It’s all about ‘how you think about it.’

What is The niime Village for you?

What kind of picture do you imagine drawing on the white canvas?

Original Japanese text by Seiji Koshikawa.
English translation by Adam & Michiko Whipple.